Arthem Chapeye ([info]chap_eye) wrote,
@ 2006-07-15 15:55:00
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We spent the night right in the centre of Oaxaca City. I mean, right. There´s a monument at Zocalo, the central square, and that´s where our tent is.
The strike is now not only about teachers, there´s also students, parents, peasants, as well as all-Mexican social organizations.
Four high officials, closest aids of the governor, have already been forced to leave the office, now the demand is the resignation of the governor himself.
The strikers also plan to boycott the comercialized festival of Oaxaca folk art and make an alternative one, they co-operate with the indeginous communities as well as hand out leaflets in English to tourist.
The festival used to be fr the indigenous exchange and for everybody, now there´s some interpreneurs that charge sky prices for entrance, taking advantage of the tradition. That really sucks.
The strikers are now allegedly better organized in terms of security, after what happened June 14th when the police tried to evict them from the historical centre. Fisrst of all, it´s the night guard.
Also. Not the teachers, but some have every means against police attack, starting with gas masks and finishing with Molotovs and self-made sound bombs against helicopters.
***
As to what Israel did to Lebanon... I would say that after this I would agree that Israel should cease existance in the Middle East... but then, I know some Israelis who resist against these fucked up policies inside their country.
US State Department (Mr. Nicolas Burns), according to British The Independent, has already stated that the US would veto any criticism of Israel in the United Nations. Motherfuckers.



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[info]airstrip
2006-07-15 09:18 pm UTC (link)
I don't see what the problem is with the action in Lebanon. The fact is that Lebanon plays host, willingly or not, to a paramilitary group that has ground-based capabilities equivalent to some local militaries and has actively attacked Israel.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]chap_eye
2006-07-17 07:19 pm UTC (link)
you said before that "you have no problem with targeting civilians" but this is exactly the problem :/

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]airstrip, 2006-07-18 06:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-18 07:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]airstrip, 2006-07-18 10:26 pm UTC
Israel
[info]mustbecrazy
2006-07-15 09:19 pm UTC (link)
As to what Israel did to Lebanon...

I think you need to check your sources. Hezbollah is bombing the hell out of Israel and Israel is shooting back from the places where the bombs originated. There was no provocation whatsoever.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Israel
[info]airstrip
2006-07-15 09:25 pm UTC (link)
Yep. Everything I find gives the general indication that Israel's actions are well provoked and any "overreaction" is the result of Israel simply being done with this mess and the international community's inability to fix it.

Lebanon and the Palestinians have only themselves to blame.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Israel - [info]crooked7, 2006-07-16 05:11 am UTC
Re: Israel - [info]airstrip, 2006-07-16 05:22 am UTC
Re: Israel - [info]crooked7, 2006-07-16 05:38 am UTC
Re: Israel - [info]airstrip, 2006-07-16 05:52 am UTC
Re: Civilians - [info]crooked7, 2006-07-16 08:46 pm UTC
Re: Civilians - [info]airstrip, 2006-07-17 12:15 am UTC
Re: Civilians - [info]crooked7, 2006-07-17 02:13 am UTC
Re: Civilians - [info]airstrip, 2006-07-17 03:45 am UTC
Re: Civilians - [info]crooked7, 2006-07-17 07:45 am UTC
Re: Civilians - [info]airstrip, 2006-07-17 10:26 am UTC
Civilians - [info]mustbecrazy, 2006-07-16 09:35 am UTC
Re: Civilians - [info]crooked7, 2006-07-16 08:56 pm UTC
Re: Civilians - [info]mustbecrazy, 2006-07-16 11:07 pm UTC
Re: Civilians - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 08:07 pm UTC
Re: Civilians - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 08:02 pm UTC
Re: Israel - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 07:15 pm UTC
Re: Israel
[info]crooked7
2006-07-16 09:38 pm UTC (link)
Actually it was Israel that first made attacks against Lebanon in response to two Israel soldiers that were adducted. The rocket attacks were in response to this. So stating that there was no provocation for these attacks is incorrect.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Running with Scissors - [info]mustbecrazy, 2006-07-16 11:04 pm UTC
Re: Running with Scissors - [info]crooked7, 2006-07-16 11:56 pm UTC
Re: Civilians - [info]crooked7, 2006-07-17 12:48 am UTC
Other Priorities - [info]mustbecrazy, 2006-07-17 12:02 pm UTC
Re: Israel
[info]chap_eye
2006-07-17 07:14 pm UTC (link)
i tend to trust The Independent.
2 Israeli soldiers kidnapped, and 73 Lebanese CIVILIANS dead in response.
Hezbollah is not Lebanon. Israel bombed the capital city. mmm... you sure the Hezbollah bombs came right from there?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]oles_maasliouk
2006-07-15 10:15 pm UTC (link)
Viva Zapata sheikh Nasrala !

Actually, in Lebanon, Israel defends its citizens' life. Jews defending their life, what a shame ! I agree with you, [info]chap_eye, "Israel should cease existance in the Middle East". We, Europeans, show in the last century that we are able to protect Jews. There is no need for Israel.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]chap_eye
2006-07-17 07:22 pm UTC (link)
i am not antisemitic to any extent if you want to imply this :)
actually, i´m now travelling with an anti-Israel Jew and we are best buddies.
Israel is agressive, that´s its problem.
I know it was attacked many times but for some reason it is now bigger than it ought to be according to the UN resolution of 1947 (if i remember the year well).

and no, it was more emotional about "cease to exist at all" :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oles_maasliouk, 2006-07-17 09:16 pm UTC
:) - [info]oles_maasliouk, 2006-07-17 09:19 pm UTC
Re: :) - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 09:27 pm UTC

[info]spacecowgirl
2006-07-15 10:34 pm UTC (link)
I, for one, Chap, agree with you entirely about the Israel/Lebanon conflict.

Anyone who cannot see that this is wrong must be relying on American press for their sources.

By the way, the U.S. government has now been asking Israel to "use caution and restraint" with their attacks, but yes, they are as of yet refusing to stand with the UN.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]airstrip
2006-07-15 10:40 pm UTC (link)
No one seems to deny any of the rationales for invasion given, they just don't like them. Switching media doesn't make any difference at all. No one denies the kidnappings, no one denies the rocket attacks, least of all Hezbollah.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]spacecowgirl, 2006-07-15 11:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]airstrip, 2006-07-16 12:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacecowgirl, 2006-07-16 12:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adira_leah, 2006-07-16 03:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]crooked7, 2006-07-16 04:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]airstrip, 2006-07-16 05:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacecowgirl, 2006-07-16 09:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adira_leah, 2006-07-16 03:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacecowgirl, 2006-07-17 09:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 07:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 07:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacecowgirl, 2006-07-16 10:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacecowgirl, 2006-07-16 09:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jordan_mn, 2006-07-16 06:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacecowgirl, 2006-07-17 06:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 07:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacecowgirl, 2006-07-16 10:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 07:27 pm UTC

[info]chap_eye
2006-07-17 07:24 pm UTC (link)
sometimes it´s weird. even activists that stand against US foreign policy often tend to defend Israel which itself is (figuratively) a part of US foreign policy in the Middle East right now

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]adira_leah
2006-07-16 03:53 am UTC (link)
You have the wrong sources. Israel's defending its own citizens. And if back home my native country defended even only one citizen, I'd have never immigrated.
Most Israelis even here do not resist, they pray for their country, for their friends and they are proud. Back in Israel, they are ready to defend their country and it's not something new for them.
So am I. I'm proud for them, though I feel sorry that there will be casualties.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]chap_eye
2006-07-17 07:33 pm UTC (link)
I respect what you say but i can´t agree that there can be a hundred casualties in response to several deaths.
it´s OVERnationalistic. and i think this notion rejects the idea that all humans are equal disregaring citizenship.

no offense but during World War II nazi Germans killed 10 civilians for every German that was killed by the Resistance.
citizens of all countries are equal.
if you can´t reach Hezbollah why attack civilians? THIS is terrorism. state terrorism by Israel in response to Hezbollah terrorism

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]sarars
2006-07-16 07:07 am UTC (link)
yep, what Israel has been doing in both Gaza and Lebanon is absolutely disgusting. Israel is forcing a civilian population to live in fear, as they're being killed and injured and their infrastructure is being destroyeed. How lovely. I somehow find it hard to believe that people would justify similar targetting of civilians where they live because of the actions of a few armed people, especially if it was their family/friends being targetted. Israel has been an absolute disaster from the very beginning.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]huemulera
2006-07-16 07:50 am UTC (link)
isn't Israel's civilian population forced to live in fear?

I agree that civilians shouldn't be killed by Israel bu I'd like to hear a plan for fighting suicide bombers and the other forms of attacks on Israel. Because, in the end, we can debate the philosophical issues all day and no one's proposing any practical solutions.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jordan_mn, 2006-07-16 07:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 07:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 07:46 pm UTC

[info]chap_eye
2006-07-17 07:38 pm UTC (link)
good point, thank you

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]oles_maasliouk
2006-07-17 09:22 pm UTC (link)
"Israel has been an absolute disaster from the very beginning." I do agree with you ! The State of Israel is the fulfillment of the Sionist movement, and the Sionist movement starts with the Dreyfus Affaire. This was a disaster. Theodor Herzl decides that if in the most civilized country such crazy antisemitic behavior was possible, the only solution was a Jewish State. Vive la France ! Vive Israël !

Still you can prefer the other - final - solution to antisemitism. (If you're a nazi.)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-17 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oles_maasliouk, 2006-07-17 09:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarars, 2006-07-17 10:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chap_eye, 2006-07-18 07:38 pm UTC

[info]huemulera
2006-07-16 07:17 am UTC (link)
"I would agree that Israel should cease existance in the Middle East"

I have to disagree with you here. Moving 5+ million people (the Israeilis) is as impractical as it is undesirable (a few questions: where will they go? on whose resources?). It is an equally bad idea to move the 3+ million Palestinians.

I'm definitely not a fan of war and the military in general but I have to say that I was quite (possibly unpleasantly) surprised when I visited Israel that the soldiers seemed quite happy to be soldiers. Yes, it is mandatory but there is very little protest. In general, I find that constant adversity somehow causes the populace of any country to develop great patriotism (see Chechnya or most other places currently in conflict).

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]chap_eye
2006-07-17 07:39 pm UTC (link)
this was an emotional moment, i do not really think cardinal changes are good :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]svinni
2006-07-16 09:38 am UTC (link)
Anton, and how about Moroz? Did you change your view upon ukrainian socialists policy? Will you justify or condemn them in some way? or you just living in magic reality now? you dont mention Ukrainian issues at all... Why?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]chap_eye
2006-07-17 07:43 pm UTC (link)
dear Svinni, don´t touch this isuue, it hurts.
if what my Mum told me is true...
yes I did change my mind. I beleived that Ukrainian socialist were truer than in other countries.
I did change my mind, even more to radical stance.
i do not touch Ukrainian issues a lot because i know too little to try an analysis now.
in this blog, because it´s less local. in the Ukrainian one, I do write about it from time to time. more in communities, though.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]e14
2006-07-16 01:39 pm UTC (link)
а де вазмущьонна я арбская абщєствєнность? де діманстрациі? спалення жидівських прапорів?
то ваи не данія...

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[info]chap_eye
2006-07-17 07:50 pm UTC (link)
ehe zh.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]wanderlamb
2006-07-16 05:08 pm UTC (link)
I was watching CNN the other night, observing the mess that is the middle east at the moment, and all I could think was 'disaster and chaos.' That was the first thing that came to mind, no eloquant meditations on the current socio-political climate, just those 3 words. Pondering the nuclear weapons crisis, the potential destruction of millions, my thought 'no less then we deserve.' I was shocked at my own cynical mind, my willingness to embrace the sensless horror of it all, take it as a part of my everyday life. This whole debacle started over 50 years ago, did they ( Isreal & Palastein) think it was going to be any different. Sometimes it's so tempting just to let go, watch them destroy themselves, let them embrace that bloody-minded ideal. I was set to make this wonderful, profound argument, but this came out instead. Horrid if you think about it.
But anyway, are you reporting these events to any publication or, ar you observing them on your own, providing this blog for the outside world? It's amazing to see how things ave progressed over there. Keep up the good work.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]chap_eye
2006-07-17 07:51 pm UTC (link)
as The Independent wrote, if Lebanon would do to Israel the same thing that Israel did to Lebanon, we would be in WW III.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]borisb
2006-07-16 05:55 pm UTC (link)
I am only looking forward to the day that Syria and Iran will join in the war to give Israel a match for what Israel is doing is totally unreasonable. Lebanon is a totally defenseless target which doesnt even have a descent military. Israel has always targeted Lebanon, and now that Mossad has assassinated Hariri and gotten the Syrian peace keepers to pull out, now Israel has found an excuse to invade over two kidnapped soldiers. This world needs another super power for the one that is now in power is abusing her power with the aid of her allies. China, India, Russia please develop faster the world needs you.

The region needs a joint Russo-Chinese peace keeping force.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]chap_eye
2006-07-17 07:53 pm UTC (link)
i don't know about Russia and China but yeas, Boris,
Lebanon was chosen as a defenseless target whereas Hezbollah is also funded in Syria,
but then Syria is stronger so let's attack Lebanon, right? :/

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]borisb, 2006-07-17 09:35 pm UTC

[info]crooked7
2006-07-17 03:17 am UTC (link)
yup, motherfuckers

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